I’ve posted an update to this video to deal with some of the comments from liberal Christians. www.youtube.com Every year, we allow human sacrifice to occur. In the US, at least 8 children, on average, are sacrificed to God by believers who deny them life-saving medical intervention. I believe children’s health care is a duty that supersedes religious belief. I think religious tolerance ends at the point of a screaming child, an infant’s fever. I have compassion for these people who have made a terrible mistake, but I have no forgiveness for the institutions and beliefs that encourage and permit this. Regardless of your position of faith, I hope you will stand up to the religious abuse and neglect of innocent children. Visit Children’s Healthcare Is a Legal Duty, Inc. (CHILD). Donate to dprjones’ Doctors Without Borders campaign to offset this kind of darkness and evil. Here’s a link to the full text of “The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas”. harelbarzilai.org It’s based on a William James theme, and here’s a bit of trivia: LeGuin came up with the name when she saw Salem, Oregon in her rear-view mirror. It’s a story that really shook me up when I first read it. See if you can understand why I am quoting it in relation to the religious neglect of children. Children’s Healthcare is a Legal Duty, Inc. www.childrenshealthcare.org The site for Medecins sans Frontieres (UK) is here; www.msf.org.uk Their youtube channel is here; www.youtube.com Doctors Without Borders (the same …
Tags: hospital · rooms. · Theists · there · waiting25 Comments
@Juicyluxe
drown her in the bathtub before she gets a chance to sin or (forbid it) the events depicted in Revelations happen. I don’t judge people who believe that enough to act on it – only those who claim to believe it, tell others its true, but when they see someone who actually accepts it call them monsters.
I feel bad for the children born to those people maybe your god is dropping hints its a hospital 3 minutes away or a telephone.Also what god would punish it followers for seeking medical treatment for an illness
@Juicyluxe so you only live to go to heaven not for any love one you have here, not to live your life to the fullest.how can the point of your life be afterlife that may not exist
If the child gets to skip the whole life on earth thing and go straight to Heaven, then it is probably better for them. If you don’t believe in Heaven then what would the point of them living be anyway? Personally if my child needed medical care to survive I would give it to her, but maybe that’s selfish.
@C0nc0rdance
“So is your hypothesis is that European civilization was technologically superior because it possessed Christianity and that led to domination of other cultures?”
It is not a “hypothesis ” but an established fact of history!
I pity that you atheist want to change, of human history to suit their atheism! LOL
@C0nc0rdance
“Hospitals predate Christianity ”
No! but temples, where people were taken for prayers (temples for healer-gods as Asclepius), and minor care that “predate Christianity” Not Hospitals as institutions whit specialist staff supported by the state.
for all other ones
see my video “Answer for Brett Keane and other atheist 01″
hopefully you learn something!
@VyckRo
Hospitals predate Christianity by centuries, the earliest free centers of healing were found in ancient Egypt. Orphanages are well documented in ancient Athens and in ancient Hebrew culture. As for elder care, we know from fossil evidence that even Homo erectus cared for their sick and elderly beyond the point where they could care for themselves.
Compassion is not exclusively a religious impulse. Religion did not invent charity.
@VyckRo
So is your hypothesis is that European civilization was technologically superior because it possessed Christianity and that led to domination of other cultures?
“I’m sure that many religions played a role in the development of modern science”
Why do you think when the Europeans arrived in America, they do not found there, a superior civilization?
or when the Europeans arrived in Australia, Chiana, India?
… It was just a coincidence?
in accordance with an idiot on YT (T.Fool) without christianity “humanity would be colonizing the universe”
ok Why did not do that the Australian aborigines?
PS
I know the answer
@C0nc0rdance
“However, this is actually an example of “appeal to consequences”.”
I do not concludes a premise, I know the history of science (That is a scientific discipline).
Hospitals, orphanages and homes for the elderly appeared in the Byzantine Empire under Emperor Justinian and Theodora.
We speak of institutions, with surgeons, doctors, not rooms where people were taken to die.
Then the system was taken over by Hospitalier Knights!
@C0nc0rdance
Fair enough-I kind of think we’re looking at the world thru different glasses.
Tske care and best wishes
@auraofgloom
Okay, well that’s where we part ways then. You see no distinction between infanticide, or murder of a child by suffocation, and offering a bad diet. You don’t make any distinction between risks of sober driving and drunk driving. I don’t see this as an issue that can be rationally debated any further.
@C0nc0rdance
Wait a second-your saying that religious people who do dumb %$#& and kill their kids are worse then secular people who do dumb &*%# and kill their kids?
Both are morally repugnant but your refusing to accept that- I dont believe you dont know that many kids WILL die from their poor diet/lack of activity.
If you said that these kids should be forced to eat and work out you would be logical, if somewhat wrong
CONTINUED
@auraofgloom
I don’t see this as an “either-or” prevention. It’s possible to be opposed to both medical neglect and bad diet, rather than having to decide which one to prevent. The question is not which is worse, but whether you support prevention of religious medical neglect.
I’ve previously stated why it’s important to deal with imminent risks differently than chronic risks. I hope you understand that distinction. It’s the same reason we dispatch police to a murder scene, not a diner.
@C0nc0rdance
You are verging on rudeness.
A ‘twinkie’ can lead to just as much suffering-I’ve lost family to bad diet. I dont see that medical neglect and letting your kid get to the point that they will suffer early death, low mobility, pain and pos diabetes is very different at all.
Dead by car accident or by medical neglect is AS DEAD and emotive descriptions dont change that.
Are you saying that parents who fatten their kids to obesity are LESS morally reprehensible or cause LESS suffering?
@auraofgloom
This isn’t about safety. Perhaps you’re not getting that. This is passive murder, medical neglect. It’s a decision the parent makes for religious reasons that directly causes the child’s death in an immediate way.
Are you being honest about this? You really don’t see a distinction between driving a car and denying your child medical care?
@auraofgloom
I guess we disagree in the distinction between a parent holding a child’s hand as they die from an easily preventable cause or beating them to death to rid them of demons or suffocating them to free their soul and what you see as the equivalent action of giving them a Twinkie.
Sacrifice is an act of murder for reasons of religion. Would you say that car accident deaths qualify under that definition? Would you say the cases described in this video qualify?
@C0nc0rdance
“all harm is not equal”- I’m not sure I understand that.
Death from not taking insulin and death from clogged arteries is pretty much as dead.
They take place at diff times but both result in the same level of deadness.
Suffering is hard to “value” for comparison-how many thousand obese kids health probs make one death from no blood transfusion?
Same for a car crash-dead is dead drunk or sober.
I think if you count up fat related deaths they top med neglect by a big margin
@auraofgloom
All harm is not equal. “Driving” is less risky than “driving distracted” which is less risky than “driving while drunk”. Only one of those is illegal in most places because the law balances loss of liberty against potential harm.
If you want the quantifiable measure, the attributable risk (AR) for diabetics being denied insulin is billions of times higher than the attributable risk for children not getting five servings of veggies/day.
@C0nc0rdance
Religious liberty is only ONE of the things that we stand to lose.
Life is sad, and often unfair-but ask yourself what YOU would give up for safety?
“Child sacrifice” is an emotive term- are those dieing from bad diet ‘sacrificed’ to the food industry?Those who are killed on roads ‘sacrificed’ for transit?
Sorry if we cant agree-you sound like a pretty smart and sensible person from your vids
@C0nc0rdance
True you CAN change the diet by outreach, IF the parents listen. But if they dont listen are their actions not as reprehensible as medical neglect?
Sorry, but I dont see them as dif.
More kids die form fat.
Not saying that only high deathcount isues matter BUT you do need to weigh cost vs benefit. Your sane, but by your logic of “NO HARM AT ALL” others could say that wrong TV shows, late nights, too much or little discipline ect are also causing harm.
Sorry about your personal loss.
@auraofgloom
It sounds like we are converging on our point of departure. You find the cost in liberty of saving 8 children’s lives a year is too high. I would say I cannot accept liberty bought at the cost of child sacrifice. That’s the point I was trying to make with LeGuin’s “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”.
A society that tolerates child sacrifice to preserve religious liberty isn’t one I want to belong to.
@auraofgloom
Again, there is a difference between offering bad nutrition and passively watching your child die of an easily preventable condition in the space of a few days. The diet issue is something we can try to change by education and awareness. Medical neglect due to religious fundamentalism is not.
You seem to imply that only issues that cause lots of deaths are important. I reject that. I’ve chosen this issue because it’s so painful, and because it touched me personally.
@C0nc0rdance
NO- I think you are very wrong to say that denying insulin and encoraging obesity are different.
They will bot result in HARM
Both Cause SUFFERING and early death.
I think more kids are suffering from the effects of obesity then medical neglect if you counted them up, or do you count their suffering as less because its not so visceral a story?
Like I said any law ultimatly depends on “Do it OR..”
Child seizure IS the ‘or’ with kids laws
@C0nc0rdance Post 2
I agree that parents dont have a right to harm their kids- however any time that we increase state power vs the family its kind of a dangerous thing.
The main prob is that what consitutes ‘harm’ varies very much in people opinions. I think very fat kids are suffering health detriments and will die at a greater rate then 8 per yr from them soon if not already.
ANY time you pass laws it come down, finally to “Comply OR…”
the ‘OR’ with kids is seizure.